Governor Hochul Was a Guest on “All In with Chris Hayes”

Earlier today, Governor Kathy Hochul was a guest on MSNBC’s “All In with Chris Hayes” to discuss New York’s reaction to the proposed redistricting in Texas.

AUDIO: The Governor's interview is available in audio form here.

A rush transcript of the Governor's interview is available below:

Chris Hayes, MSNBC: Texas Republicans are going to go ahead with their gerrymander to try to take five congressional seats away from Democrats and maintain control of the House of Representatives in next year’s midterms. There's no way really to stop them because the United States Supreme Court has gutted the Voting Rights Act, which would be one way to stop it, so the only real way is to kind of match them; for Democrats in blue states to fight fire with fire.

California's Governor, Gavin Newsom, says he may call a special election to redraw his state’s congressional maps. In New York, Governor Kathy Hochul says she is ready to play by new rules. And joining me now is Kathy Hochul, the Democratic Governor of New York.

Governor, it's great to have you on the program. Now, I live in New York and follow this pretty closely and know that redistricting in New York has been complicated. In fact, it's been quite a complicated and long story over the last two cycles. To level set here, what would you have to do for it even to be possible to redraw the congressional maps in the State?

Governor Hochul: Well, first of all, you're absolutely right that we are fighting fire with fire. If they're going to rig the system, I refuse to sit on the sidelines and let our democracy further erode any more than it already has under the Trump administration. So we're all in for this. Just like Chris Hayes’ ‘All In,’ we are all in.

So let me say this, we are different than California. I wish I could just call a special election and change it. I'd do it in a heartbeat. But we have a constitutional amendment process that's required first. I'm willing to do that. I'm working hard with our legislative leaders to pass legislation immediately — as soon as they return in January — pass it in this current session of the Legislature, go to the next one, which is required, so it won't be until 2027 we can get it on the ballot, but what would that mean is that in 2028, we could have different lines. Otherwise, we have to wait until 2032. And heaven help our country to find out what'll happen with that length of time.

But it's not just that timing, I'm leaning hard into the ‘26 election. I'm going to do what we did back in 2024 when we won five out of seven battleground congressional seats and put all Democrats in those seats. So I'm looking at the next year already as to how we can support our party, our candidates, Hakeem Jeffries, and make sure that he is the Speaker before all this insanity continues.

Chris Hayes, MSNBC: So, one thing I just want to point out there for the timeline is because New York moved to essentially put in reforms that would make partisan gerrymandering more difficult — and a lot of Democratic states did that, including California, which has an independent commission, there's other states as well — you couldn't do this in time for 2026. It's not like you can do in Texas where they're going to do it, it's protracted.

But there's a kind of wild asymmetry here. I want to read you this quote from the New York Times that Democrats in three states are considering moves to counter a push by Texas Republicans, and here's the quote, “‘Nationally, there are a lot of Democrats who thought they were doing the right thing in pushing for independent redistricting and are now wondering: Did we get duped?’ said [Paul Mitchell,] a Democratic political consultant and political data expert.” Did Democrats get duped?

Governor Hochul: I will say this, there were strong, good government advocates who really forced this issue in our state. My predecessor followed that. I'll tell you right now, I've been an elected official for 30 years. I don't believe in tying our hands behind our back, especially when we're going against very aggressive opponents who have no trouble changing the rules in the middle of the game. So here we are. I'm left with the consequences, but this whole idea of having independent individuals who are not elected who don't understand the system determine the fate of our country, it hasn't worked and it's not working now. Particularly when Donald Trump is literally disenfranchising millions of people in Texas.

Chris Hayes, MSNBC: Yeah.

Governor Hochul: Particularly communities of color, will no longer have the elected official that they went to the ballot box and picked and decided to vote for, you're going to sweep in Republicans instead? That is unconscionable. It deserves a strong reaction because extreme times call for extreme measures.

Chris Hayes, MSNBC: I want to ask you about something that you posted on X earlier this week after that horrible shooting in midtown Manhattan with a long gun assault weapon that was carried across the country by the shooter. You said “No more excuses, no more deflection. It's time for a national assault weapons ban.” Do you feel like there's any movement on that?

Governor Hochul: You know what Chris I don't know if any hearts will change, but how many more lives have to be lost because other states have not adopted the common sense gun safety laws that have made New York State the number one big state in America for not having people killed by guns. We are the safest big state. We are fighting hard with the laws I've put into place, but if other states don't do it, then we are basically vulnerable to people who do exactly what this perpetrator did. This individual with such cruelty and depravity of heart, drove across the country with the intention to wreak maximum human carnage and they succeeded resulting in the lives of four people, including a police officer.

I was at his funeral yesterday, so is this the right time? I don't know Chris, but if we don't start using our voices louder and louder and louder because sixty-five percent of Americans want this to happen. They want an assault weapons ban. We had it back in 1994 under President Bill Clinton. It was lapsed under George Bush and since that time, mass shootings have gone up over seven-hundred percent.

That is shocking. So kids don't feel safe in school. You don't feel safe going to a movie theater. You don't feel safe going to a grocery store like we had that mass slaughter in my hometown of Buffalo just a few years ago. So I'm going to continue from the rooftops, saying we need to do this and do it now, other countries have done it successfully. Why can't we have the courage to do what's right?

Chris Hayes, MSNBC: In the 45 seconds I have left, the mayoral race is headed towards the general election in New York City. Zoran Mamdani won that quite surprisingly, but quite definitively that New York City primary. You have not endorsed him as of yet, other office holder democrats have. What are you waiting for? What are you looking for to make the decision whether you're going to endorse the Democratic nominee for mayor?

Governor Hochul: We'll have more conversations, I already started that. I went and I visited him just a couple days after the election. He's taken a lot of positions that I don't agree with, but we have a lot of alignment on issues like affordability. He supports my efforts to build more housing so it's not the most expensive purchase. When you have more supply, the prices go down. I understand what it's like to be a struggling mom, I was that mom. I had to leave a job with Senator Moynihan because I couldn't afford childcare. I know what it's like and I'm there with him in dealing with the affordability issues. So we'll just have more conversations.

Chris Hayes, MSNBC: New York Governor Kathy Hochul, thank you for your time. I appreciate it.